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	<title>Comments on: Linux desktops?</title>
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	<link>http://www.zenofnptech.org/2008/06/linux-desktops.html</link>
	<description>Thoughtful and sometimes snarky perspectives on nonprofit technology</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:12:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Isaac</title>
		<link>http://www.zenofnptech.org/2008/06/linux-desktops.html#comment-6095</link>
		<dc:creator>Isaac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 08:28:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenofnptech.org/?p=275#comment-6095</guid>
		<description>Linux is a Godsend for my nonprofit.  We have a few hundred staff and everybody uses linux.  Using things like diskless technologies (ltsp,drbl,freenx) our costs and staffing needs dropped through the floor.  I would never ever run a company on anything else ever again!  All the time and money we save is more time and money that can be spent on people in 3rd world countries.  All the people that support linux have no idea how much impact that they have around the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Linux is a Godsend for my nonprofit.  We have a few hundred staff and everybody uses linux.  Using things like diskless technologies (ltsp,drbl,freenx) our costs and staffing needs dropped through the floor.  I would never ever run a company on anything else ever again!  All the time and money we save is more time and money that can be spent on people in 3rd world countries.  All the people that support linux have no idea how much impact that they have around the world.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad White</title>
		<link>http://www.zenofnptech.org/2008/06/linux-desktops.html#comment-5841</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad White</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 15:52:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenofnptech.org/?p=275#comment-5841</guid>
		<description>At the upfront cost, Windows Vista is $600 USD. At the upfront cost, GNU/Linux is $0 USD. That already will send me speeding toward GNU/Linux systems. Most people will not try Linux because either a) they just do not give a flying f**k, or b) they ill-conceived notions about what GNU/Linux is, and what it can do for them. Moving on from there, I have never had the problems you have had. Plugging in monitors was never an issue. Just change /etc/X11/xorg.conf ahead of time to set your resolution, vertrefresh, and horizsync to something you know that the monitor can handle. Wireless worked for me straight after install. DVD's worked for me as well (though Windows doesn't play DVD's right after install). Adding a new printer is facilitated by a few different things hplip, cups, ghostscript, and gutenprint/gimpprint. You will need all of them because of the varying ways in which printers operate. You may want to try a polished distribution rather than something like Slackware (Slackware is more similar to BSD than it is GNU). Ubuntu, Fedora, Blag, Mandriva, Gentoo, and so on. These distributions are easier to use and maintain than any other I've ever touched. When you talk about hardware support, there are certain things that just will not work. For example: broadcom chipsets. If the hardware manufacturers will not open source their hardware/software there is nothing that can be done, period. If you buy atheros wireless, hp printers, and other incredibly common hardware... you ought to be just fine with Linux.

Linux isn't popular because 
      #1 - there is no GNU/Linux advertising in mainstream media.
      #2 - there is Microsoft and Macintosh advertising in the media.
      #3 - hardware vendors are slow to take open source alternatives seriously
           because of FUD from Microsoft (until very recently)
      #4 - people who have an audience constantly talk about how awful Linux is for
           the Desktop

If you want Desktop Linux and Mandriva/Ubuntu/Fedora were not easy enough, you should try PCLinuxOS or Linspire.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At the upfront cost, Windows Vista is $600 USD. At the upfront cost, GNU/Linux is $0 USD. That already will send me speeding toward GNU/Linux systems. Most people will not try Linux because either a) they just do not give a flying f**k, or b) they ill-conceived notions about what GNU/Linux is, and what it can do for them. Moving on from there, I have never had the problems you have had. Plugging in monitors was never an issue. Just change /etc/X11/xorg.conf ahead of time to set your resolution, vertrefresh, and horizsync to something you know that the monitor can handle. Wireless worked for me straight after install. DVD&#8217;s worked for me as well (though Windows doesn&#8217;t play DVD&#8217;s right after install). Adding a new printer is facilitated by a few different things hplip, cups, ghostscript, and gutenprint/gimpprint. You will need all of them because of the varying ways in which printers operate. You may want to try a polished distribution rather than something like Slackware (Slackware is more similar to BSD than it is GNU). Ubuntu, Fedora, Blag, Mandriva, Gentoo, and so on. These distributions are easier to use and maintain than any other I&#8217;ve ever touched. When you talk about hardware support, there are certain things that just will not work. For example: broadcom chipsets. If the hardware manufacturers will not open source their hardware/software there is nothing that can be done, period. If you buy atheros wireless, hp printers, and other incredibly common hardware&#8230; you ought to be just fine with Linux.</p>
<p>Linux isn&#8217;t popular because<br />
      #1 - there is no GNU/Linux advertising in mainstream media.<br />
      #2 - there is Microsoft and Macintosh advertising in the media.<br />
      #3 - hardware vendors are slow to take open source alternatives seriously<br />
           because of FUD from Microsoft (until very recently)<br />
      #4 - people who have an audience constantly talk about how awful Linux is for<br />
           the Desktop</p>
<p>If you want Desktop Linux and Mandriva/Ubuntu/Fedora were not easy enough, you should try PCLinuxOS or Linspire.</p>
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		<title>By: ToTehMoon Blog Part &#187; OpenOffice.org Big Winner in SourceForge Contest</title>
		<link>http://www.zenofnptech.org/2008/06/linux-desktops.html#comment-5823</link>
		<dc:creator>ToTehMoon Blog Part &#187; OpenOffice.org Big Winner in SourceForge Contest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 00:18:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenofnptech.org/?p=275#comment-5823</guid>
		<description>[...] devices, but still struggles in the desktop market.  That particular argument was recently repeated at a blog by someone who covers non-profits and technology.  I first discovered that when I got the notice [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] devices, but still struggles in the desktop market.  That particular argument was recently repeated at a blog by someone who covers non-profits and technology.  I first discovered that when I got the notice [...]</p>
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		<title>By: What software freedom means to me &#187; Zen and the Art of Nonprofit Technology</title>
		<link>http://www.zenofnptech.org/2008/06/linux-desktops.html#comment-5777</link>
		<dc:creator>What software freedom means to me &#187; Zen and the Art of Nonprofit Technology</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:19:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenofnptech.org/?p=275#comment-5777</guid>
		<description>[...] got some interesting comments on the last post about Linux desktops. I realize that I haven&#8217;t talked about this in a while, and I&#8217;m [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] got some interesting comments on the last post about Linux desktops. I realize that I haven&#8217;t talked about this in a while, and I&#8217;m [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Pete</title>
		<link>http://www.zenofnptech.org/2008/06/linux-desktops.html#comment-5775</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:12:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenofnptech.org/?p=275#comment-5775</guid>
		<description>Bummer, but you have to do what makes sense for your situation.

My own experience has been that desktop Linux has been increasingly more usable since I started using it full-time about four years ago.  The one sticking point was MS Project (unfortunately, a necessity), but I was able to get around that by a combination of dual-booting and VirtualBox.  Otherwise, I've found that just about all the monitors and other peripherals I've acquired over the last year or so have worked out of the box.

Unfortunately, a new laptop with a corporate-mandated Safeboot-encrypted HD has put the kibosh on that strategy, and I'm now stuck using XP full time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bummer, but you have to do what makes sense for your situation.</p>
<p>My own experience has been that desktop Linux has been increasingly more usable since I started using it full-time about four years ago.  The one sticking point was MS Project (unfortunately, a necessity), but I was able to get around that by a combination of dual-booting and VirtualBox.  Otherwise, I&#8217;ve found that just about all the monitors and other peripherals I&#8217;ve acquired over the last year or so have worked out of the box.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, a new laptop with a corporate-mandated Safeboot-encrypted HD has put the kibosh on that strategy, and I&#8217;m now stuck using XP full time.</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.zenofnptech.org/2008/06/linux-desktops.html#comment-5774</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:44:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenofnptech.org/?p=275#comment-5774</guid>
		<description>@Stuart I don't do Windows. :-) And I don't need paid Linux support - I've been using Linux for more than 10 years. I'm not a newbie. I know how to recompile a kernel. The issue is how I want to spend my time (and therefore, for me $, since I am a freelancer.) For large organizations, you may be correct in this assessment, but I'm not so sure, even. For an individual, 1/10 of a Windows install is like, what $20? Hardly going to buy much paid support!

@Matthew Your points are all well taken, and it was for this reason that I did the original switch to Linux. I'm sold on software freedom, don't get me wrong. And I think that organizations and individuals that are committed to software freedom should absolutely be willing to jump through the hurdles that exist. Also, remember I use a Mac - so all of the security issues are moot. I agree with basically everything you say, which is why it's sad for me to give Linux up as my main desktop. 

My experience may well have been different if I had been a Windows user. I think the Windows-&gt;Linux experience is a lot more different than the Mac-&gt;Linux experience.

@Brian Yes, I will discuss pre-loaded systems, and you are right, they are easier to deal with, for sure. But you'll still have the peripherals issue.

@Seth I haven't tried it yet - that's a good idea. I know that the Adobe Air is alpha in Linux, but it's worth trying out.

@Thomas Sorry to burst your bubble. :-)

And, by the way, there are loads and tons of great open source desktop applications available for both Mac and Windows, that I swear by and use every day, like Firefox, Thunderbird, OpenOffice.org, Adium, etc. I think that's where the growth of FOSS on the desktop is going to be great.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Stuart I don&#8217;t do Windows. :-) And I don&#8217;t need paid Linux support - I&#8217;ve been using Linux for more than 10 years. I&#8217;m not a newbie. I know how to recompile a kernel. The issue is how I want to spend my time (and therefore, for me $, since I am a freelancer.) For large organizations, you may be correct in this assessment, but I&#8217;m not so sure, even. For an individual, 1/10 of a Windows install is like, what $20? Hardly going to buy much paid support!</p>
<p>@Matthew Your points are all well taken, and it was for this reason that I did the original switch to Linux. I&#8217;m sold on software freedom, don&#8217;t get me wrong. And I think that organizations and individuals that are committed to software freedom should absolutely be willing to jump through the hurdles that exist. Also, remember I use a Mac - so all of the security issues are moot. I agree with basically everything you say, which is why it&#8217;s sad for me to give Linux up as my main desktop. </p>
<p>My experience may well have been different if I had been a Windows user. I think the Windows->Linux experience is a lot more different than the Mac->Linux experience.</p>
<p>@Brian Yes, I will discuss pre-loaded systems, and you are right, they are easier to deal with, for sure. But you&#8217;ll still have the peripherals issue.</p>
<p>@Seth I haven&#8217;t tried it yet - that&#8217;s a good idea. I know that the Adobe Air is alpha in Linux, but it&#8217;s worth trying out.</p>
<p>@Thomas Sorry to burst your bubble. :-)</p>
<p>And, by the way, there are loads and tons of great open source desktop applications available for both Mac and Windows, that I swear by and use every day, like Firefox, Thunderbird, OpenOffice.org, Adium, etc. I think that&#8217;s where the growth of FOSS on the desktop is going to be great.</p>
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		<title>By: Stuart Ward</title>
		<link>http://www.zenofnptech.org/2008/06/linux-desktops.html#comment-5773</link>
		<dc:creator>Stuart Ward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:46:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenofnptech.org/?p=275#comment-5773</guid>
		<description>If you spent one tenth of the money you didn't spend on a windows install on some paid for Linux support, I am sure your experience would have been very different.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you spent one tenth of the money you didn&#8217;t spend on a windows install on some paid for Linux support, I am sure your experience would have been very different.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Edmondson</title>
		<link>http://www.zenofnptech.org/2008/06/linux-desktops.html#comment-5772</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Edmondson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 10:28:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenofnptech.org/?p=275#comment-5772</guid>
		<description>This is a shame.

What price Freedom?

This is why you cannot judge GNU/Linux side by side with proprietary systems.  If you value software choice, privacy, common ownership, etc., then:-

- buy hardware that is supported (unless you are a developer or tinkerer) 
- use software that is not proprietary

its easy.

If however you want:-
- more viruses &#38; security holes
- wasted tax payers money
- closed certification &#38; training
- hardware upgrade cycles (and hardware disposal issues)
- data ownership issues (open standards)

then promote and use proprietary systems! Because most people will only use what they are familiar with.

it is particularly sad because its still virtually impossible to spend grant money on GNU/Linux support, people like to fund shiny hologram boxes.  your message will justify them.

its like a path in the woods, the more people travel down it the easier the path gets.  This is why your message is sad.  I am sure that you are aware of this though.

As Linus said:

Have a lot of fun.

I am sorry that you didn't find your GNU/Linux experience to your satisfaction.  Did you learn anything about how your computer works? I bet you did.  If you are a 'Circuit Rider' then re-applying this knowledge makes administrating easier and thus cost effective for 3rd sector organisations.  You see learning GNU/Linux makes for a better windows admin and gives the client more choice.

meh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a shame.</p>
<p>What price Freedom?</p>
<p>This is why you cannot judge GNU/Linux side by side with proprietary systems.  If you value software choice, privacy, common ownership, etc., then:-</p>
<p>- buy hardware that is supported (unless you are a developer or tinkerer)<br />
- use software that is not proprietary</p>
<p>its easy.</p>
<p>If however you want:-<br />
- more viruses &amp; security holes<br />
- wasted tax payers money<br />
- closed certification &amp; training<br />
- hardware upgrade cycles (and hardware disposal issues)<br />
- data ownership issues (open standards)</p>
<p>then promote and use proprietary systems! Because most people will only use what they are familiar with.</p>
<p>it is particularly sad because its still virtually impossible to spend grant money on GNU/Linux support, people like to fund shiny hologram boxes.  your message will justify them.</p>
<p>its like a path in the woods, the more people travel down it the easier the path gets.  This is why your message is sad.  I am sure that you are aware of this though.</p>
<p>As Linus said:</p>
<p>Have a lot of fun.</p>
<p>I am sorry that you didn&#8217;t find your GNU/Linux experience to your satisfaction.  Did you learn anything about how your computer works? I bet you did.  If you are a &#8216;Circuit Rider&#8217; then re-applying this knowledge makes administrating easier and thus cost effective for 3rd sector organisations.  You see learning GNU/Linux makes for a better windows admin and gives the client more choice.</p>
<p>meh.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.zenofnptech.org/2008/06/linux-desktops.html#comment-5771</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 05:15:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenofnptech.org/?p=275#comment-5771</guid>
		<description>"What happened was I felt like I was wasting too much time on things that should be easy. It should be easy to plug in a new monitor. It should be easy to get wireless, it should be easy to add a new printer. It should be easy to play a DVD."

It's a shame you've had bad experiences with those tasks. I've had one of the Dell 1420Ns sold with Ubuntu for a year now, and at this point all four of those things seem easy. After the upgrade to 8.04, I can plug in a new monitor and extend the display with the screen resolution applet (I'm using intel video). I connect to open/wep/wpa wireless networks without issue via Network Manager (I'm using intel wifi). I plug in in printers and they're automatically set up. Although they weren't doing it when I made the purchase, Dell is now including licensed DVD playback software.

I hope you're discussing the option of buying systems with linux preinstalled in the webinar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;What happened was I felt like I was wasting too much time on things that should be easy. It should be easy to plug in a new monitor. It should be easy to get wireless, it should be easy to add a new printer. It should be easy to play a DVD.&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a shame you&#8217;ve had bad experiences with those tasks. I&#8217;ve had one of the Dell 1420Ns sold with Ubuntu for a year now, and at this point all four of those things seem easy. After the upgrade to 8.04, I can plug in a new monitor and extend the display with the screen resolution applet (I&#8217;m using intel video). I connect to open/wep/wpa wireless networks without issue via Network Manager (I&#8217;m using intel wifi). I plug in in printers and they&#8217;re automatically set up. Although they weren&#8217;t doing it when I made the purchase, Dell is now including licensed DVD playback software.</p>
<p>I hope you&#8217;re discussing the option of buying systems with linux preinstalled in the webinar.</p>
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		<title>By: Seth Schneider</title>
		<link>http://www.zenofnptech.org/2008/06/linux-desktops.html#comment-5770</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth Schneider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 04:21:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenofnptech.org/?p=275#comment-5770</guid>
		<description>Nice post. I'm intrigued with your thoughts on Linux shining in dedicated devices like cell phones. I use Ubuntu on a dual-boot (XP) machine. My experience as a non-power user is that it was still harder to get things up and running than XP (in part because of the dual boot) but not as bad as I imagine it was a few years ago. I haven't investigated much software beyond email, web, and word processing, but I have noticed some strange video issues with my monitor.

One minor point: have you tried Twhirl on Ubuntu? I've been pleased with it and consider it a viable option.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice post. I&#8217;m intrigued with your thoughts on Linux shining in dedicated devices like cell phones. I use Ubuntu on a dual-boot (XP) machine. My experience as a non-power user is that it was still harder to get things up and running than XP (in part because of the dual boot) but not as bad as I imagine it was a few years ago. I haven&#8217;t investigated much software beyond email, web, and word processing, but I have noticed some strange video issues with my monitor.</p>
<p>One minor point: have you tried Twhirl on Ubuntu? I&#8217;ve been pleased with it and consider it a viable option.</p>
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